Ο γραφων βρισκεται υπο εξαιρετικες και δυσκολες συνθηκες που αφορουν μεταξυ αλλων βασικα ανθρωπινα δικαιωματα. Επισης χρειαζεται δικηγορικη καλυψη για να ασκησει εφεση. Εχει επικοινωνησει με δικηγορους και εχουν αρνηθει να αναλαβουν την υποθεση. Εαν καποιος θελει να βοηθησει ας επικοινωνησει μαζι μου (πρωτοδικειο).
The author is under difficult conditions which involve among others basic human rights. Lawyer is needed among other things to do appeal. The author has contacted several lawyers who refused to take the case. If someone wants to help contact me (court).
youtube link to part of a greek comedy from 1979
Follows an email discussion with a person who took notice and wanted to know more of what is happening here. The whole email discussion is reproduced. Some of the person details are referenced by X, Y, .. and so on (per request).
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Hello Nikos, My name is X, a person from Y. I want to help but there is not enough information. I can\'t promise anything before I know more. I have employed programmers part-time and I\'m employed myself at a Z. I\'m concerned because you showed interest in science, programming and democracy. I want to help but I don\'t know what I\'m writing about. I know no details about the case. There is not enough information for me to understand your conditions. If you need to ask about lawyer, can\'t you try law.stackexchange.com/ ? I read that something might have happened. Maybe you can write directly to me what happened in English because I don\'t know Greek and there is not information about what happened. I\'m not rich but I have donated before to good causes. You are welcome to write to me what happened and describe your conditions. I feel naive trying to understand and/or help with something I know nothing about. Regards, X Y
Hello X and thank you for your interest. Long story short is the following: The court case (which currently is at the very first degree) is about having me deprived of all (note ALL) legal rights (for example make legal agreements work agreements and so on..). To "back" this court decision, there have been a number of involuntary commitments to psychiatric wards prior to that (mentioned in the court decision linked), without justification and without granding me the right to dispute it and/or have access to legal representation (although have asked for this from the very start and was ignored repeatedly). During these "commitments", i have been drugged and altered my consciousness without my consent, tied up, threatened, beat up, humiliated and other things. The underlying reason for all this, is my active resistance to social exclusion and undermining of my rights which i have experienced (and continue to experience), and this in a sense acts as a "lesson for me" to be quite and conform. This is a summary, i cannot get more detailed over an email, but i hope you get the point here. The court decision was made at the start of 2016 and it happend (note just happened, i was not properly notified of this outcome), to come to my attention by accident on March of 2016. After that i got in touch with a number of (greek) lawyers, but refused to take the case as it stands. My presumption is that in some cases they themselves were afraid to tackle such a case (in fact a couple said so to me during our communication). After a while i decided to make this public over my personal webpage and related web-sites i am involved, both to raise awareness and also to let people know what is going on, under what conditons i am and have them decide for themselves. As far as stackoverflow is concerned, i was an active member for about 2 years in a number of scientific and technical forums, before leaving it all together after debating several times about the way it worked and suggesting solutions, but receiving nothing but a deaf ear and heavy downvoting (my profile should still have the text i left last before leaving, if it is not deleted, havent checked since, which is before 2016). So i would not use it for this. Thank you and feel free to communicate if you want to, Nikos
I understand and have hope for you. I understand if you are not satisfied with the decisions. The decision-makers abuse you but you have good chance and I want to tell you how we succeeded in similar cases. You have options.I have in similar cases succeeded to file a complaint about "illegally forcing" because they are forcing you and we can claim it is illegal and a crime. The legal text is available in English, I will check it. I hope that I don't misunderstood. I am optimistic about the case because you are innocent and you have high IQ. I know several "good doctors" in Y that are more normal. In Y involuntary psychiatric ward can happen almost for no reason or just because of clothes or when a partner is dominant. In all cases we have succeeded to help both with women and men in a short time but it was in Y. I will do all I can to help you. Maybe I can come and visit you. I have amateur experience helping people in similar situations (involuntary psychiatric ward). The cases are somewhat similar but spontaneously compared to my experience, your situation seems easier than the ones I already succeeded in. We can try and negociate with the decision-makers. I might be able to donate some money (but I'm not rich) and I might be able to offer you a freelance contract that can improve your situation. In best case you can become free in just a couple of weeks. Worst case it takes years but I think the case is not bad. I know people in Y in almost identical cases where they became free in just a few weeks. The strategy to become free is: Act like the situation is "normal", be boring, don't get angry, act "normal", speak about everyday things, speak about music, don't act extreme even if you are, act a "sham" and act like . Don't claim a conspiracy. Speak about the weather, speak about food, try to find a "contact person" that can make arrangements with you that are allowed. When it happens, you can become free in just a few weeks if you "play it well". I have helped several people in very similar situation. They were deprived of all rights and locked in. They had given up all hope. They usually become free in a few weeks when I helped them, mostly because of a "contact person" which several times was myself. If they have a "contact person" outside the ward, then the ward can let you take walks and begin to stay at home. The doctors can be very different, a doctor can suddenly make you free if he decides that you are "capable of making decisions". Many doctors will listen to logic but they are often obsessed about drugging you and forcing you. You probably have the right to switch doctors. In Y such a case is called "involuntary psychiatric ward" and in the W it's called a 5150. Are you allowed to move freely outside the ward at all? Do they let you visit your home? What are your main short-term goals? Best regards, X Y
Hello X, let me make at least one point clear here (i will re-read the rest and see how to proceed) The part: During these "commitments", i have been drugged and altered my consciousness without my consent, tied up, threatened, beat up, humiliated and other things. Which, if you like, is the full definition of torture (and against medical standards), constitutes a standard practise of "psychiatry" (quotes on purpose). As such there is no "good practise of good doctors" to be sanctioned. This leads to questioning the edifice which holds such practises as standard, the purpose it serves, and those who endorse it. As such, one, and me personaly of course, should not use these same persons and the invested interests they have in the furtherment and sanctioning of such practises to be honest critics of (or even more stand up against) these same practises and the purpose they serve. And trust me (or research around if you like) they dont want to do that. This makes the path(s) to follow in order to do this, quite clearcut. This should be clear and understandable enough. As far as donations are concerned. i have a paypal donate button (due to software i make that people may find useful) and one can donate if one wants to do that, but if one doesnt want to or cant, there is no problem either. Thanks again, Nikos
I know. It is torture.Sat, 14 Jan 2017 17:51:59
You can have right to a "support person" and a "contact person" outside the ward. That has been part of the solution in the similar cases before in Y when the people became free from the ward in a short time. I have hopes that we can help you. I also hope that I'm not too optimistic. If you agree to let me try and help you I have tried, with protection of your personal and medical details that have confidentiality 1. Phone call with Y health care system. They understand the case. They mean we can retrieve information 2. Ask a Y lawyer about information An advantage, however unlikely and rare, is that if you also become wrongfully suspected of some crime, you can use the decision from the ward to avoid being prosecuted if that happens (similar to "unfit for trial").
Listen my friend, this is the opposite of what is demanded here.
That is if i understand correctly so far, which i think i do (and correct me if i'm wrong)
The problem is NOT to get in touch with some people "outside the ward" NOR "get unfit for trial".
We can do this already, they grant us such useless "rights". This is the point.
We DEMAND our rights which have been undermined using such practices.
Anyway, thanks again for your interest and, by the way, i could be playing a
scum scam on you to get your sympathy and then your money, dont donate money simply because of that.
Exactly because there is NO crime involved and no other way to justify what is happening here and the abolition of our rights, this approach is used which in a sense allows for such abolition of rights without any more justifications (and a way for the "naives" to "swallow" more easily) The abolition of our rights has ALREADY been achieved using such practises and approaches. Hope this is clearly enough spelled-out.
Of course you have the right against abuse. They abuse you. They attack you. You have the right to choose peace, democracy, truth, objectivity and freedom. Those are very general rights. Is it more specific? Do you have unfinished business somewhere or a conflict with somebody and you can't make claims? I wonder specifically which rights are abolished that you claim?Sun, 15 Jan 2017 03:10:28
In the cases I know, it was only a doctor who could change the court's decision. That's why people needed to "play along" with the doctor. I understand if you hate the forcing and drugging. To become free from the forcing and drugging, the strategies we have used have been to influence a doctor to decide that the person is capable of making decisions. It may vary between countries, but you and I are both in M that should have somewhat similar system for rights. It's usually only 2 types of rights overall: Either civil rights or government rights.
Yes sure, i already know that, and let me tell you this is the WRONG approach to take. Why? When one is taken into commitment, there HAS to be a court hearing after a while. This is a legal process NOT a medical process. They never take anyone to the court (and personaly i have demanded this many times and with many, even extreme ways of protest). They dont take to the court as they SHOULD do. Why? Instead the psychiatrits themselves go there (if needed) and lie. Yes THEY LIE. One should not "play along" simply to influence a court decision, or avoid trial or whatever, nor call false witnesses (which is a variation of the above). And let me tell you something, if by any chance i was guilty of some crime, i would NOT be spared the trial. If you have the right you SHOULD be heard on trial. Doing otherwise undermines your own rights. Period. Regards, Nikos
You know what they do in court it's even worse than lying, it's false evidence and breaking oath. From what I read and heard from psychologists and psychiatrists they judge you by the communication, the body language, their perceived ideas of how you think and other absurd grounds that are no basis for the wrongdoings. They will only accept if you do it wrong and accept the unacceptable. It's like they blackmail you. Do you know why they force you? What is their goal? What is your goal-setting? I understand you claim the right to freedom from oppression. That is natural. Is there something more? How can I help you when you already know everything? We will become cynic and feel hopeless if we only observe the wrongdoings and being overruled. Is it most important to get you a lawyer or is it in any way possible to change the decision? You could also escape. In Y it is not illegal to escape but if you get caught they will make more difficult decisions based on the escape.
For now it is a good first step to get to appeal to court (which is exactly what i have posted on my personal webpage). You are in Y, i'm in Greece. They are both in the M, but there are many difficulties. i'm here now and will do it here. There are many ways one can help and provide support for what one feels should do. From a mere message to whatever one is capable of. Its getting late here as well. We'll see. All the best for now, Nikos
We think that they have no proof. The court won't care about evidence or proof in the cases I've read. In my experience, the court cares about alibi and relations. The court believes that a doctor is an alibi and in 98 % of the cases the court will decide that the doctor is right. If a doctor decides that the person is capable of making decisions, then the person will be completely free. That has happened recently but infrequently. Do they care about your friends, your parents or your work? If it helps, you and I can make a contract or a formal letter that I employ you part-time for web development (but today I can't pay much). Best wishes, X
Yes, listen. Indeed this is what happens, or what happens on average. The court doesnt care, doesnt want to investigate, they use a supposed "expert" to wash their hands, so to speak, and get it over with. However, and i'm not saying anything new here, IT IS IN FACT KNOWN AND PUBLISHED, that this process is abused consistently, or at least in an amount of cases. And this abuse IS NOT some exceptional case of malpractice contrasted with a good practice. This type of abuse is the standard practice itself (what we discussed earlier). There are no (objective) safety guards amywhere. It full of (loop)holes. And this is NOT my saying, this is a known fact. This is very serious matter, there is indeed nothing objective here, but opinions over opinions for certain purposes or for the highest payer. You pay enough, i'll give you a "good diagnose". And no amount of labels or taxonomies will make it one. If one sues a cardiologist for malpractice, no matter how many friends or fellow cardiologists of the cardiologist come to his defense, the cardio-exams are objective evidence. It is NOT a matter of opinion NOR of taxonomy labels which mean absolutely nothing. Are you saying there is no way to dispute this and expose it for what it is? No there is. And if one is wiling and determined, like i am at this point, this should be pursued. Which is exactly what i'm saying and doing. We want to expose this process for what it is and what it serves. And yes my friend it can be done, are you willing? All the best, Nikos
I'm the most willing on this earth about it. But are we able? We have tried to use logic, justice and truth against physical violence. Are we able? If you only knew how and what is done. 2 years ago a patient (an engineer from K) died in Y just because he refused. The ward got violent against him so that he should take the drugs. He died from the violence. We could use their method against them. "Scientific evidence." They have no scientific evidence. We have scientific evidence. They claim science. It's nothing but abuse and narcissism when they claim to be the objective scientists. We can use their method against them.
True and true, but like i said, one should be willing and determined to stand up, even if it may have risk. Myself cannot ask anyone (but me) to take risk. Like i said before one has many ways to help or provide support for what one feels should do. From a simple message to whatever one is capable of. Bye for now, Nikos
I can write to the court and to your doctors that I support the decisions you make. I can translate it to Greek with help.Sun, 15 Jan 2017 16:48:19
I see in the communication that you don't ask questions. If you start asking questions then maybe that can help. They understand questions.
Why not make it public? We are activists now and this is already public. Anyway, dont rush. Think, read over what we discused, see whether you agree or not. Even if this is not exactly "your cup of tea", its OK, no worry. Even this email discussion was nice and it showed me that there are some people out there who took notice. Cheers, Nikos
It could make it worse. Psych is their holy cow and if you oppose it today it is similar to opposing organized religion historically. A priest was "always right". The same is psychiatrists today. The doctor says so, therefore things are so. They will traumatize you even more if we oppose the power in public. We will get interrupted by bullshit and bullshitters.
Ok, no worry, thank you anyway for the interest. Cheers, Nikos
If you can, it works sometimes to seek help from friends and relatives. It seems you are punished for the social exclusion. I don't know much about the background. Whatever the background, you have the moral right to decide about your own body.
i'm thinking maybe post this entire email discussion on my webpage, since you had questions and maybe any other that takes notice of this, could find this discussion useful as well. If you agree with this, i can remove your name or any other info you dont want accessible at that level, i'll let you know. This email will be posted as well. Nikos
This is free speech. Use it as you like. You are welcome, but please remove my name and my details.